Expensive rods dont catch more fish , they might make the enjoyment better ? They might reduce fatigue and feel more Confirmable ? Either way it’s down to personal choice . They are not essential they are just more desirable .
I have been fly fishing for about 60 years. I started out with cheap rods, reels, lines, gear, etc. Then, I gradually stepped up my rods, reels, line, gear etc. I currently spend about 30 days each year fishing. I used to fish much more. Over the years, I have come to appreciate top quality gear from waders, to vests, to fly lines. Top quality in these things absolutely makes my fishing experience more enjoyable. And, I do have a few $1,000 rods from Orvis, Sage, and Winston. I have enough experience fly fishing to notice and appreciate the difference between my less expensive rods and my more expensive rods.
But, these rods are the WORST rods to learn on. They are ultra fast action and unforgiving. A beginner will have a miserable time with these rods because they don’t allow you to develop a feel for how the rod loads and operates. But, in the right hands they are a joy to fish. Do I need a $1,000 rod? No. Do I enjoy fishing them? Yes. So, unless you spend more than 20 to 30 days fishing each year, you probably won’t develop a hankering to try an expensive rod. But, if you fish enough, curiosity will eventually pull you into the $1,000 rod. So, you don’t need a $1,000 rod. In fact, most people would be better off with less expensive, slower action rods. Instead, most casual fly fishermen would be better served by sinking their money into top quality fly lines. Your fly line can and does make a huge difference. But, if you can afford to experiment, Why not? I have no regrets about my expensive rods.
At 15 years I taught myself fly fishing. First trout was on a fly from Kmart and a cheap rod. I put in my time reading a lot of Field and a stream articles since no one I knew fished, then implementing what I learned. This was a very organic and pure way to learn and love our sport. I use a $200 rod, I like a small arbor reel and often keep a fish for the pan. I even talk to bait fishermen sometimes. I often hear chuckles towards me while stream side by people who seem to have all the gear but exhibit little knowledge or skill. They seem to think spending on top gear will buy them into being a fly fisher overnight.
I still cast and love my 1982 Leon Chandler signature Cortland graphite rod. 6/7 wt. , 9'. (I have 2 of these rods) I bought a $1K Scott rod and compared it to my Cortland rod. I like my Cortland rod so much better – so I sent the Scott back.
Take a look at Baetis rods, especially if you are in Europe 🇪🇺. But no one really cares, same a golf clubs etc. My brother has a 9,000 euro racing bike, mine is 1,000 but that's his decision.
Pay what you can afford.
Do you need a custom rod, handles, no… is it justified not really..
Same with waders from SIMMS. Total rip and lots of customers have issues mid season. I have kinetic waders at 220 euro and they will outlast any simms waders
The reality is that a market exists more for the rich in fly fishing than the working class. I have rods that have cost 300 to 400 that far out preform sage rods at 1000. Nothing against Sage. That’s just the market. I have found Hardy products to offer good deals for premium products but the likes of sage and Thomas and Thomas are just a rip. Greys fly rods feel better, preform better and are a fraction of the price.
I am certain that I am not the only one here with a complaint about SAGE.
I purchased a rod 25 years ago, which has, as part of its Warranty Registration Card, which I still have, this statement – "Every Sage rod, reel and blank is covered by our lifetime, original owner warranty. Regardless of the cause of damage, Sage will repair or replace the sage product while it is still owned by the original owner."
This warranty is no longer honored by Sage. They will fix a rod, via paid repair, which is something anyone can obtain, meaning you could break a random rod and walk up to the sage factory on BB Island and they will repair it for a price, which clearly shows that Sage's warranty means NOTHING! Furthermore, Sage determines what is repair VS what is warranty…which means everything is repair.
Kelly is correct, do not buy some 1000 dollar rod from Sage as it is no different than dozens of other rods that cost less and are produced by a company that will honor their warranty.
Sage offered this warranty when they were building a brand. Now that they have a brand, the customer matters not. I will not be purchasing anything from Sage ever again.
I think rods over 300 are completely ridiculous. It’s so stupid. Iv fished 1000 dollar sage rods. Iv fished 200 dollar TFO rods and LL Bean rods. Was happy with all of them.
I know this has been out there a few years, but thanks for saying it, Kelly. I mean, if you've always dreamed of having a Winston and you get that promotion you've been working for, go for it and treasure that rod. But the idea that you "need" a $1000USD rod, or you'll "graduate" or "grow" out of a $600 rod (something I heard today) is total BS.
I have an old Dan Craft 5 Rivers blank I built that had a lifetime warranty, but they aren't in business anymore. The blank alone was 300.00. 20 years ago. That said, it is an absolutely AMAZING distance casting rod. They have won world championships with that blank, and mine is no exception. But again, they are out of business and I won't ever be able to replace a tip section or anything else.
ask yourself this question..what does the fish see…………………………………………the fly..my grandfather taught me this fact when i was new to fly fishing and was using a bamboo fly rod..when i asked him.,why are we not using those newer fiberglass rods,, the answer is still true today…the fish see's the fly..so yes a $1000 fly rod is BS
I LOVE Echo rods. I own several of them and they are all great rods, and they were all reasonably priced. Tim Rajeff started Echo because, like Kelly, he doesn’t think you should have to pay a lot to get a good quality rod.
When I was a poor kid growing up in the wilds of Vermont I started my fly fishing with a cheap eagle claw yellow fly rod from Ames department store and for the first three years the only fly I ever used was a muddle or minnow and I caught a lot of trout!
Making an "American" rod is really nothing-simply slapping components together. The mark of excellence under that limited scenario is the fit and finish with the rod itself. The essence of a great rod remains the blank itself. Hence, WHERE is that made? If not "American made", it's really not an American rod. Now…for a GREAT Korean blank, the designer had better understand how the tapers will translate out on the water in terms of load, action/power. Further, how well does it fight? If optimized for distance casting, does the tip remain sufficiently supple and responsive to protect light tippets? If so, the designer has achieved a proper balance that will allow both distance and the ability to fight effectively on hook set. If the rod won't fight responsively on hook set, I don't care how far it can throw. Design, therefore, matters. Then the ability to properly translate design out on the production floor when manufacturing the blank. How rigorous are those processes? Finally, material selection-there's a range of suitable glass and graphite materials available to the manufacturer. What is selected and why? That's a whole other story by itself.
Good work ain’t cheap. Cheap work ain’t good. That said… if a company isn’t there then there is no guarantee. Dan Bailey made lifetime guaranteed waders. The new guys bought the shop and refused to make good on the guarantee. (How about 10% off on a new pair of Orvis?). Their last attempt was a free water bottle.
I fished an expensive Winston when I swapped my TFO generation one ($200 At the time) for a few casts with a friend. The Winston was clearly better. You are correct sir. I see guys with new great stuff stacked up with the guides on the A section of the Green River. If they can cast and feel the difference I get it. Great custom work ain’t cheap.
I grew up here in south Texas in a lower middle income class family. We use standard tackle spinning rods. I always wanted to fly fish and I asked my father for a fly rod set up. His response was fly fishing is a rich man's hobby, we cant afford the luxury. I will say it is expensive but i can afford it now.
Kelly….not long ago I bought a echo carbon xl 4wt. I fished it about two weeks ago and i like it just as much if not better then my diamond backs. The only difference between the two is my diamond back are just a little lighter. Does the weight difference worth 650 dollars…..nope. I love my echo carbon xl. Fantastic nymph rod.
One of the best rods ever made was the TFO BVK. I hate that the discontinued it but it was fast, looked great, super lightweight, and cost $325. I snapped one section and my dog actually did eat the other and I was able to get two new sections delivered to my door to keep me fishing. Really wish they included a rod tube also but not a big deal. After fishing numerous $1000 rods I can still confidently say the BVK was better and that I would rather fish it over the high end rods. I try to buy them used when they pop up on the second-hand market sub $200. It's better to have a couple of those so you have a backup also over buying ONE rod for a grand. Just my opinion.
I have 4 G-Loomis GLX centerpin rods – 2 GLX spinning rods and 2 NRX Fly rods, and broke off 2 over the years that were my fault, and the G-Loomis Warranty still covered them, and I had new rods in less than 2 weeks and just had to pay shipping costs when I sent them to Petaburo, Ontario. You pay for what you get
Just buy a used $1000 rod for a price of mid rage rod, use it for a couple years years and sell to the next guy. Try different rods in different sizes from different producers, you don't have to own rods for 25 years. Same with reels. Buy the one you really like, it can always be sold.
i fish with a hardy made for me it 13 line 10 ft it will put all them rods to same this rod is 35 years old the 1000 us rod only cost 45 us it bull most off it ig 10 thousand reels made fore orvis they were 600 us reel each and the price i give was less than 5 cans off red bull
Oh it's true! I once lined out my (ex)girlfriend with a Redington Classic Trout 486–4 and I found out that I loved the way that rod loaded and released and I thought it was buttery smooth and I coveted it – I had to admit it to myself that I liked it just as much or more than my vintage Sage VPS Light of the same weight. Hard to believe in harder to accept. I still buy $1,000+ rods however from dentists and surgeons and wealthy businessmen that are dissatisfied now that a newer Sage or Winston has come out.
I oculd never see spending that much for a rod unless I was a multi-millionaire. Course, I've been using the same 1979 fenwick fiberglass rod my dad handed down to me when I first started learning how to fly fish….old 8wt 8 1/2 footer., and Im now 47. Started learning how to fly fish in my teens.
I’m new to fly fishing but this story mirrors my guitar hobby. Back in the 60’s or 70’s a company like Sears would make lower priced instruments that are $200-400 in today’s dollar. Absolute junk. The equivalent guitar today is so far superior to those guitars it’s crazy. Close your eyes and often you can’t tell the difference from premium models. The only reason to buy an expensive guitar is because you want it and can afford it or because you know it will hold its value over time(or you’re just addicted to buying gear!). I imagine the same is true with rods. If I can afford a Sage or custom rod there’s no reason not to buy it. It seems like that purchase would only happen years after starting though. I’m currently borrowing my friend’s Sage rod and all of its value is utterly lost on me. It will be interesting when get my first rod, which would be something like an Orvis Clearwater or the Echo to see if I can feel anything different with my rudimentary skill level.
Each of these $1000 rods are hand crafted. They all are made by two hands that manipulate the materials into these rod. Most if not all composites are hand crafted we would like to think each step is controlled but materials have to be manipulated in ways that automation cannot duplicate. Windings guides, making the reel-seats, making the corks, applying the resin on the wraps. At any place along the process scrap can and will happen. Add in lifetime warranty and the factor of failure becomes more certain.
Just look at all the record fish caught on some kid's zebco with mickey mouse stickers on it. Quality equipment can be had for way less than something that is just has more sparkle in the sun but costs twice as much. I like to shoot sporting clays competetively and still remember the day when my buddies and I with our high end guns had a guy pull up in a single cab ford covered in mud, flip forward the seat to pull a beat to death 12 gauge pump out, spray it down with WD40 from his truck bed toolbox and proceed to beat our brains in with it. Lesson learned.
Expensive rods dont catch more fish , they might make the enjoyment better ? They might reduce fatigue and feel more Confirmable ? Either way it’s down to personal choice . They are not essential they are just more desirable .
I have been fly fishing for about 60 years. I started out with cheap rods, reels, lines, gear, etc. Then, I gradually stepped up my rods, reels, line, gear etc. I currently spend about 30 days each year fishing. I used to fish much more. Over the years, I have come to appreciate top quality gear from waders, to vests, to fly lines. Top quality in these things absolutely makes my fishing experience more enjoyable. And, I do have a few $1,000 rods from Orvis, Sage, and Winston. I have enough experience fly fishing to notice and appreciate the difference between my less expensive rods and my more expensive rods.
But, these rods are the WORST rods to learn on. They are ultra fast action and unforgiving. A beginner will have a miserable time with these rods because they don’t allow you to develop a feel for how the rod loads and operates. But, in the right hands they are a joy to fish. Do I need a $1,000 rod? No. Do I enjoy fishing them? Yes. So, unless you spend more than 20 to 30 days fishing each year, you probably won’t develop a hankering to try an expensive rod. But, if you fish enough, curiosity will eventually pull you into the $1,000 rod. So, you don’t need a $1,000 rod. In fact, most people would be better off with less expensive, slower action rods. Instead, most casual fly fishermen would be better served by sinking their money into top quality fly lines. Your fly line can and does make a huge difference. But, if you can afford to experiment, Why not? I have no regrets about my expensive rods.
I enjoyed your video.
My biggest tarpon – conservatively 140 lbs – landed in Florida on a Temple Fork 12 wt. Great rods, salt or trout.
I just bought a 18 dollar eagle claw featherlight that casts pretty good for what it is. Already caught a bunch of fish on it.
All I use is fiberglass rods. Because I like them. 💯
At 15 years I taught myself fly fishing. First trout was on a fly from Kmart and a cheap rod. I put in my time reading a lot of Field and a stream articles since no one I knew fished, then implementing what I learned. This was a very organic and pure way to learn and love our sport. I use a $200 rod, I like a small arbor reel and often keep a fish for the pan. I even talk to bait fishermen sometimes. I often hear chuckles towards me while stream side by people who seem to have all the gear but exhibit little knowledge or skill. They seem to think spending on top gear will buy them into being a fly fisher overnight.
I still cast and love my 1982 Leon Chandler signature Cortland graphite rod. 6/7 wt. , 9'. (I have 2 of these rods)
I bought a $1K Scott rod and compared it to my Cortland rod.
I like my Cortland rod so much better – so I sent the Scott back.
Take a look at Baetis rods, especially if you are in Europe 🇪🇺.
But no one really cares, same a golf clubs etc.
My brother has a 9,000 euro racing bike, mine is 1,000 but that's his decision.
Pay what you can afford.
Do you need a custom rod, handles, no… is it justified not really..
You pay for the name.
Same with waders from SIMMS. Total rip and lots of customers have issues mid season. I have kinetic waders at 220 euro and they will outlast any simms waders
The reality is that a market exists more for the rich in fly fishing than the working class. I have rods that have cost 300 to 400 that far out preform sage rods at 1000. Nothing against Sage. That’s just the market. I have found Hardy products to offer good deals for premium products but the likes of sage and Thomas and Thomas are just a rip. Greys fly rods feel better, preform better and are a fraction of the price.
Just bought a Pure2. That’s a 1000 less my kids will get when I kick the bucket
I totally agree
It’s the Indian not the arrow
My theory is that people spend too much money on hobbies they are not good at, hoping it will give them an edge
I am certain that I am not the only one here with a complaint about SAGE.
I purchased a rod 25 years ago, which has, as part of its Warranty Registration Card, which I still have, this statement – "Every Sage rod, reel and blank is covered by our lifetime, original owner warranty. Regardless of the cause of damage, Sage will repair or replace the sage product while it is still owned by the original owner."
This warranty is no longer honored by Sage. They will fix a rod, via paid repair, which is something anyone can obtain, meaning you could break a random rod and walk up to the sage factory on BB Island and they will repair it for a price, which clearly shows that Sage's warranty means NOTHING! Furthermore, Sage determines what is repair VS what is warranty…which means everything is repair.
Kelly is correct, do not buy some 1000 dollar rod from Sage as it is no different than dozens of other rods that cost less and are produced by a company that will honor their warranty.
Sage offered this warranty when they were building a brand. Now that they have a brand, the customer matters not. I will not be purchasing anything from Sage ever again.
I got an Orvis Clearwater and love it.
He fell in love with the back-up rod and stiffed his GF.😅
I think rods over 300 are completely ridiculous. It’s so stupid. Iv fished 1000 dollar sage rods. Iv fished 200 dollar TFO rods and LL Bean rods. Was happy with all of them.
That new Hardy dry fly rod had better not be more than $375
sage rods are better high performance rods than the competition, plus they're made in USA with a great warranty, nuff said
I know this has been out there a few years, but thanks for saying it, Kelly. I mean, if you've always dreamed of having a Winston and you get that promotion you've been working for, go for it and treasure that rod. But the idea that you "need" a $1000USD rod, or you'll "graduate" or "grow" out of a $600 rod (something I heard today) is total BS.
I have an old Dan Craft 5 Rivers blank I built that had a lifetime warranty, but they aren't in business anymore. The blank alone was 300.00. 20 years ago. That said, it is an absolutely AMAZING distance casting rod. They have won world championships with that blank, and mine is no exception. But again, they are out of business and I won't ever be able to replace a tip section or anything else.
Personally I like my rod😂
Don't mess with Kelly,he's been there and done that
ask yourself this question..what does the fish see…………………………………………the fly..my grandfather taught me this fact when i was new to fly fishing and was using a bamboo fly rod..when i asked him.,why are we not using those newer fiberglass rods,, the answer is still true today…the fish see's the fly..so yes a $1000 fly rod is BS
I LOVE Echo rods. I own several of them and they are all great rods, and they were all reasonably priced. Tim Rajeff started Echo because, like Kelly, he doesn’t think you should have to pay a lot to get a good quality rod.
I buy thousand dollar rods… when they get discontinued and they're on sale for half off 😂
When I was a poor kid growing up in the wilds of Vermont I started my fly fishing with a cheap eagle claw yellow fly rod from Ames department store and for the first three years the only fly I ever used was a muddle or minnow and I caught a lot of trout!
Making an "American" rod is really nothing-simply slapping components together. The mark of excellence under that limited scenario is the fit and finish with the rod itself. The essence of a great rod remains the blank itself. Hence, WHERE is that made? If not "American made", it's really not an American rod. Now…for a GREAT Korean blank, the designer had better understand how the tapers will translate out on the water in terms of load, action/power. Further, how well does it fight? If optimized for distance casting, does the tip remain sufficiently supple and responsive to protect light tippets? If so, the designer has achieved a proper balance that will allow both distance and the ability to fight effectively on hook set. If the rod won't fight responsively on hook set, I don't care how far it can throw. Design, therefore, matters. Then the ability to properly translate design out on the production floor when manufacturing the blank. How rigorous are those processes? Finally, material selection-there's a range of suitable glass and graphite materials available to the manufacturer. What is selected and why? That's a whole other story by itself.
I have a 5wt Echo Lago rod, handles just fine, caught a 22" brown on it about a month ago and it handled great
Is it a warranty or protection plan you're getting with the high-dollar rods?
1K rod is bullshit. I've got lots of them. Thank you Kelly!!!!
Good work ain’t cheap. Cheap work ain’t good. That said… if a company isn’t there then there is no guarantee. Dan Bailey made lifetime guaranteed waders. The new guys bought the shop and refused to make good on the guarantee. (How about 10% off on a new pair of Orvis?). Their last attempt was a free water bottle.
I fished an expensive Winston when I swapped my TFO generation one ($200 At the time) for a few casts with a friend. The Winston was clearly better. You are correct sir. I see guys with new great stuff stacked up with the guides on the A section of the Green River. If they can cast and feel the difference I get it. Great custom work ain’t cheap.
Love this video. I fish mostly cheaper rods. But I love warranty’s.
I grew up here in south Texas in a lower middle income class family. We use standard tackle spinning rods. I always wanted to fly fish and I asked my father for a fly rod set up. His response was fly fishing is a rich man's hobby, we cant afford the luxury. I will say it is expensive but i can afford it now.
Kelly….not long ago I bought a echo carbon xl 4wt. I fished it about two weeks ago and i like it just as much if not better then my diamond backs. The only difference between the two is my diamond back are just a little lighter. Does the weight difference worth 650 dollars…..nope. I love my echo carbon xl. Fantastic nymph rod.
One of the best rods ever made was the TFO BVK. I hate that the discontinued it but it was fast, looked great, super lightweight, and cost $325. I snapped one section and my dog actually did eat the other and I was able to get two new sections delivered to my door to keep me fishing. Really wish they included a rod tube also but not a big deal. After fishing numerous $1000 rods I can still confidently say the BVK was better and that I would rather fish it over the high end rods. I try to buy them used when they pop up on the second-hand market sub $200. It's better to have a couple of those so you have a backup also over buying ONE rod for a grand. Just my opinion.
I have 4 G-Loomis GLX centerpin rods – 2 GLX spinning rods and 2 NRX Fly rods, and broke off 2 over the years that were my fault, and the G-Loomis Warranty still covered them, and I had new rods in less than 2 weeks and just had to pay shipping costs when I sent them to Petaburo, Ontario. You pay for what you get
Just buy a used $1000 rod for a price of mid rage rod, use it for a couple years years and sell to the next guy. Try different rods in different sizes from different producers, you don't have to own rods for 25 years. Same with reels. Buy the one you really like, it can always be sold.
i fish with a hardy made for me it 13 line 10 ft it will put all them rods to same this rod is 35 years old the 1000 us rod only cost 45 us it bull most off it ig 10 thousand reels made fore orvis they were 600 us reel each and the price i give was less than 5 cans off red bull
Oh it's true! I once lined out my (ex)girlfriend with a Redington Classic Trout 486–4 and I found out that I loved the way that rod loaded and released and I thought it was buttery smooth and I coveted it – I had to admit it to myself that I liked it just as much or more than my vintage Sage VPS Light of the same weight. Hard to believe in harder to accept. I still buy $1,000+ rods however from dentists and surgeons and wealthy businessmen that are dissatisfied now that a newer Sage or Winston has come out.
I oculd never see spending that much for a rod unless I was a multi-millionaire. Course, I've been using the same 1979 fenwick fiberglass rod my dad handed down to me when I first started learning how to fly fish….old 8wt 8 1/2 footer., and Im now 47. Started learning how to fly fish in my teens.
I’m new to fly fishing but this story mirrors my guitar hobby. Back in the 60’s or 70’s a company like Sears would make lower priced instruments that are $200-400 in today’s dollar. Absolute junk. The equivalent guitar today is so far superior to those guitars it’s crazy. Close your eyes and often you can’t tell the difference from premium models. The only reason to buy an expensive guitar is because you want it and can afford it or because you know it will hold its value over time(or you’re just addicted to buying gear!). I imagine the same is true with rods. If I can afford a Sage or custom rod there’s no reason not to buy it. It seems like that purchase would only happen years after starting though. I’m currently borrowing my friend’s Sage rod and all of its value is utterly lost on me. It will be interesting when get my first rod, which would be something like an Orvis Clearwater or the Echo to see if I can feel anything different with my rudimentary skill level.
Each of these $1000 rods are hand crafted. They all are made by two hands that manipulate the materials into these rod. Most if not all composites are hand crafted we would like to think each step is controlled but materials have to be manipulated in ways that automation cannot duplicate. Windings guides, making the reel-seats, making the corks, applying the resin on the wraps. At any place along the process scrap can and will happen. Add in lifetime warranty and the factor of failure becomes more certain.
Just look at all the record fish caught on some kid's zebco with mickey mouse stickers on it. Quality equipment can be had for way less than something that is just has more sparkle in the sun but costs twice as much. I like to shoot sporting clays competetively and still remember the day when my buddies and I with our high end guns had a guy pull up in a single cab ford covered in mud, flip forward the seat to pull a beat to death 12 gauge pump out, spray it down with WD40 from his truck bed toolbox and proceed to beat our brains in with it. Lesson learned.
I’ve used every single orvis rod that is out right now and the $1000 Helios is noticeably the best of them all.
I've never had any qualms whatsoever about saying $1000 plus rods are BS. All disciplines of fishing are getting ludicrously overpriced.